Comments on: The KDE 4 hassle… http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22 all the way to reno... Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:16:19 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Kevin Kofler http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64744 Kevin Kofler Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:16:19 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64744 Fedora's and openSUSE's KDE 4.1.2 and 4.1.3 packages have panel autohide backported. :-) Complain to Kubuntu... Fedora’s and openSUSE’s KDE 4.1.2 and 4.1.3 packages have panel autohide backported. :-) Complain to Kubuntu…

]]> By: Franz Keferböck http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64670 Franz Keferböck Wed, 03 Dec 2008 06:21:07 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64670 @P: Your comment on the panel is true for 4.1 but will be void for 4.2, where all this functionality is included. I understand that " it's not there _yet_" is a bit of a teaser, but it takes a while to get back all the features. However, there's been a lot of time spent in creating great libraries, now getting back old and adding new features is easier and faster - the 4.2 panel is already more powerfull and shiny than the 3.5 one (except for choosing a background image directly). @P: Your comment on the panel is true for 4.1 but will be void for 4.2, where all this functionality is included. I understand that ” it’s not there _yet_” is a bit of a teaser, but it takes a while to get back all the features. However, there’s been a lot of time spent in creating great libraries, now getting back old and adding new features is easier and faster – the 4.2 panel is already more powerfull and shiny than the 3.5 one (except for choosing a background image directly).

]]> By: P http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64669 P Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:59:50 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64669 I'm a KDE 3.5 fan, and one of the reasons I love it is the great konfigurability. Playing with a nice config dialog box with lots of options is fun (and useful too, of course)! (aside: CompizConfig Settings Manager is even more configurable and even more fun than many KDE things) However, I'm quite disappointed with KDE 4.1 (and Canonical's decision to ship that instead of 3.5 in Kubuntu 8.10... but I'm not talking about that now). :-( Specifically, I don't quite agree with *Q* When will i be able to configure the panel again??? There used to be this dialog there, but it’s gone! Will this be in 4.2? *A* Well, it’s on your system already! Now you just find it “on spot”, right at the panel itself, rather than the dialog. Look… KDE 3.5 panel's configuration is much more comprehensive. For example, being able to auto-hide the panel is a basic, essential feature to me (I can even do it on Windows :-) ). This, and the fact that I can't have a taskbar with 3 rows is basically what is keeping me away from KDE 4.1. (I know all this will come in the future... but till then I'm sticking with Kubuntu 8.04 and KDE 3.5. :-( ) Looking forward to a KDE 4.x which will be as feature-rich and konfigurable as KDE 3.5. I’m a KDE 3.5 fan, and one of the reasons I love it is the great konfigurability. Playing with a nice config dialog box with lots of options is fun (and useful too, of course)! (aside: CompizConfig Settings Manager is even more configurable and even more fun than many KDE things)

However, I’m quite disappointed with KDE 4.1 (and Canonical’s decision to ship that instead of 3.5 in Kubuntu 8.10… but I’m not talking about that now). :-( Specifically, I don’t quite agree with

*Q* When will i be able to configure the panel again??? There used to be this dialog there, but it’s gone! Will this be in 4.2?
*A* Well, it’s on your system already! Now you just find it “on spot”, right at the panel itself, rather than the dialog. Look…

KDE 3.5 panel’s configuration is much more comprehensive. For example, being able to auto-hide the panel is a basic, essential feature to me (I can even do it on Windows :-) ). This, and the fact that I can’t have a taskbar with 3 rows is basically what is keeping me away from KDE 4.1.

(I know all this will come in the future… but till then I’m sticking with Kubuntu 8.04 and KDE 3.5. :-( )

Looking forward to a KDE 4.x which will be as feature-rich and konfigurable as KDE 3.5.

]]> By: stilgar http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64652 stilgar Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:43:13 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64652 In menus and configuration dialogs, one can go through all the options until you find the right one. During the process one may also hit good-to-remember-for-the-future kind of settings. If the settings are moved to (instead of duplicated in) the UI, this becomes a lot harder, because there is no more a central place for all the settings. This is not just an issue of going from KDE3 to 4, it's how things work in most environments. "Massive" configuration dialogs are not a problem either. If the user already makes the effort of opening a configuration dialog, finding many things there probably won't scare her off (unless it's as opaque as in vlc ). The user is more likely to be frustrated when she doesn't find the option she's looking for in the application itself, because it has been moved to system settings for instance. Code should be well-structured and minimal etc. User interfaces on the other hand, should just make things easy, and may be redundant. If system settings affect how a program works, have a link to those settings from within the program's configuration dialog. Userbase and screencasts are great initiatives, but do you really expect users to go through them to change the icon size or widget alignment on the panel ? More likely will they just live with the default setting and switch to an "better" program if it comes along. *eats his pedantic hat* In menus and configuration dialogs, one can go through all the options until you find the right one. During the process one may also hit good-to-remember-for-the-future kind of settings. If the settings are moved to (instead of duplicated in) the UI, this becomes a lot harder, because there is no more a central place for all the settings.

This is not just an issue of going from KDE3 to 4, it’s how things work in most environments. “Massive” configuration dialogs are not a problem either. If the user already makes the effort of opening a configuration dialog, finding many things there probably won’t scare her off (unless it’s as opaque as in vlc ).

The user is more likely to be frustrated when she doesn’t find the option she’s looking for in the application itself, because it has been moved to system settings for instance. Code should be well-structured and minimal etc. User interfaces on the other hand, should just make things easy, and may be redundant. If system settings affect how a program works, have a link to those settings from within the program’s configuration dialog.

Userbase and screencasts are great initiatives, but do you really expect users to go through them to change the icon size or widget alignment on the panel ? More likely will they just live with the default setting and switch to an “better” program if it comes along.

*eats his pedantic hat*

]]> By: Jeffro http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64648 Jeffro Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:39:33 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64648 You're exactly right! I'd been using KDE3 since I started using Linux (Mandrake 10.0 days). Through the several years and many, many distros, I always used KDE3 - I got used to its quirks. I started following KDE4 around the time of 0.0 beta 1, and I've seen the progress from feature-starved-but-better-foundation to still-sorta-feature-deprived-but-plenty usable. Mind you, I'm just an early-adopting user - I wouldn't know what to do if I fired up Kate with some kdelibs source files. Even with all the time I've been fussing with it, I'm still figuring things out. Like that slider in Dolphin - I noticed it, but before this post had no idea what it did! Or, also in Dolphin, I just realized today that I could right click on any of the "places" on the left pane and configure where they go! I love where KDE4 is heading. It IS getting better, usability wise. But it's just as you said: so many of us are so used to KDE3 that we can't wrap our minds around the simplicity. You’re exactly right!

I’d been using KDE3 since I started using Linux (Mandrake 10.0 days). Through the several years and many, many distros, I always used KDE3 – I got used to its quirks.

I started following KDE4 around the time of 0.0 beta 1, and I’ve seen the progress from feature-starved-but-better-foundation to still-sorta-feature-deprived-but-plenty usable. Mind you, I’m just an early-adopting user – I wouldn’t know what to do if I fired up Kate with some kdelibs source files. Even with all the time I’ve been fussing with it, I’m still figuring things out.

Like that slider in Dolphin – I noticed it, but before this post had no idea what it did!

Or, also in Dolphin, I just realized today that I could right click on any of the “places” on the left pane and configure where they go!

I love where KDE4 is heading. It IS getting better, usability wise. But it’s just as you said: so many of us are so used to KDE3 that we can’t wrap our minds around the simplicity.

]]> By: user interface design | Digg hot tags http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64647 user interface design | Digg hot tags Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:50:40 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64647 [...] Vote The KDE 4 hassle… [...] [...] Vote The KDE 4 hassle… [...]

]]> By: Lisandro D. N. Pérez Meyer http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64637 Lisandro D. N. Pérez Meyer Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:07:00 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64637 Well, I feel like any of those people who made those questions :-( Maybe I should get a girlfriend, let her learn KDE 4 and then teach me how it works ;-) Well, I feel like any of those people who made those questions :-(
Maybe I should get a girlfriend, let her learn KDE 4 and then teach me how it works ;-)

]]> By: Karl Günter Wünsch http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64636 Karl Günter Wünsch Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:49:35 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64636 The problem you describe is a thing of perception. While software designers might perceive a setting to be base setting of the whole UI whereas the user has a certain way of thinking in tighter contexts. Let me take a recent example which is working with gwenview. There used to be a way of configuring the "Open with" list of applications in which you can externally open the shown image. Gwenview in KDE4 has effectively lost this ability to have an own list because it seems to be using the file associations you mention in your description. Here comes the problem: Previously I had this list customized to suit my style of working with my photographs (so the gimp was first in list) while leaving the global list of applications untouched for konqueror to use (where kuickshow and viewers were more important than the gimp). Both are part of different aspects of my workflow and need to be distinct, thus the new configuration is a major step backwards because now I can have either gwenview or konqueror style workflows but not both at the same time. And that's IMHO just the same for the things you described above. In the end workflows become more cumbersome to realize because all programs now behave identically and the context of the operation is lost... regards Karl Günter The problem you describe is a thing of perception. While software designers might perceive a setting to be base setting of the whole UI whereas the user has a certain way of thinking in tighter contexts.
Let me take a recent example which is working with gwenview. There used to be a way of configuring the “Open with” list of applications in which you can externally open the shown image. Gwenview in KDE4 has effectively lost this ability to have an own list because it seems to be using the file associations you mention in your description.
Here comes the problem: Previously I had this list customized to suit my style of working with my photographs (so the gimp was first in list) while leaving the global list of applications untouched for konqueror to use (where kuickshow and viewers were more important than the gimp). Both are part of different aspects of my workflow and need to be distinct, thus the new configuration is a major step backwards because now I can have either gwenview or konqueror style workflows but not both at the same time.
And that’s IMHO just the same for the things you described above. In the end workflows become more cumbersome to realize because all programs now behave identically and the context of the operation is lost…
regards
Karl Günter

]]> By: Paulo Cesar http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64634 Paulo Cesar Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:45:17 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64634 Man, I couldn't agree more with you.. I never liked the massive configurations dialogs and menus from kde3, and I'm loving KDE4 (despite some odds) But here on our Brazilian community every "kde3 user" keeps crying that their configuration dialogs are gone.. Man, I couldn’t agree more with you.. I never liked the massive configurations dialogs and menus from kde3, and I’m loving KDE4 (despite some odds)

But here on our Brazilian community every “kde3 user” keeps crying that their configuration dialogs are gone..

]]> By: Luca Beltrame http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22&cpage=1#comment-64632 Luca Beltrame Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:01:40 +0000 http://franz.keferboeck.info/blog/?p=22#comment-64632 That's why I think that stuff like screencasts are useful. Like that you can directly *show* the person how to do it. That’s why I think that stuff like screencasts are useful. Like that you can directly *show* the person how to do it.

]]>